think ryan and romney, while they talk about having a five-point plan, they are not willing to be specific. they are not willing to be specific about their $5 trillion in tax cuts and what they are going to do for the middle class. >> can i ask you both quickly, and look further ahead than tuesday night. 2016, did either of these candidates, do you think, increase their chances, maybe of running for president, if not then maybe for paul ryan in the future? >> 2016 -- i hope we don't have to talk about 2016. we have 26 more days to talk about this one and then can we take a break before we get to that? >> i think it's more like 2020 for paul ryan because i expect that mitt romney will be elected and we'll be standing again in 2016. paul ryan did help himself. he came across informed, sober, credible, wasn't flustered by biden's antics. i think that was important. i think you'll see a lot of swing voters and independent voters gravitate to that style, that tone that he did show a level of leadership people are looking for. >> always good to have you on the program. thank you.